lager brewing without a chiller

[RobDrechsler]

after reading the lager thread , how hard is it to brew a lager ( vienna or bock) without a temperature controlled brewing environment.. at least one that's lower than my house , 64* ..

[chris mewhinney]

Without the ability to get and hold the fermentation temp down in the low 50's and the lagering temps to the low 30's, you really can't do it. While you can certainly ferment lager yeasts at higher temperatures (such as a Steam beer...in the high 50's, low 60's), the resulting beer won't be a lager. You just won't get the clean, crisp, crytal clear beer you want.

Now what you COULD do is find a friendly homebrewer with some extra space and a temperature controller...and lease a corner of his fridge. I'm sure someone could help you out. I will actually be making an Octoberfest within the next 2 weeks and would be willing to share my fridge if you'd like.

[Brewboy]

Rob, I'd advise against it. Lager yeasts will produce too many esters at room temp to yield a clean lager profile that you need in those malty German styles.

There are way to lager with out temp controlers and refigerated fermentation chambers.

You can use a big rubbermaid container, place your carboy in it and fill it with water 3/4 of the way up the beer level. Put frozen blocks of ice in the water to maintain a 48-50 degree temp. It takes some monitoring but you can be away from it for a good long while. Just keep refreezing the ice bottles and put more in when the temp starts rising. Start it at a time when you can watch it closely and get a feel for the ammount of ice you need and the interval you need to change it out.

Lots and lots of good lagers have been made with this type of cold water bath.

[chris mewhinney]

Scott-That will get you through the 3 weeks of primary fermentation but how would you lager? That would take a LOT of ice to get 5 gallons to 33 degrees and hold it for 4-6 weeks! If there's a way to do that without artificial refrigeration (in Texas...), I'd love to hear it!

[ejonsson]

after reading the lager thread , how hard is it to brew a lager ( vienna or bock) without a temperature controlled brewing environment.. at least one that's lower than my house , 64* .

My two cents. While you can't really do a proper lager under those temperature conditions, but there may be another option.

If you have to ferment in the low 60's, how about using a California Common yeast, instead of a German Lager strain, since its better suited for that temperature range. If you can't refrigerate a keg, then bottle the beer. Put the bottles in the fridge for your lagering.

I haven't tried this myself, so I don't know how true to style the result would be, for any of the lager styles, but I figure its worth a shot.

-Einar

[Brewboy]

Scott-That will get you through the 3 weeks of primary fermentation but how would you lager? That would take a LOT of ice to get 5 gallons to 33 degrees and hold it for 4-6 weeks! If there's a way to do that without artificial refrigeration (in Texas...), I'd love to hear it!

Like Enir stated, you could bottle it and cold age. I would let it carbonate first then just place it in the fridge for a couple of months. Lagering can also be done by placing it in an ice chest and keeping it packed with ice, this time of year my garage would make is a pretty good lagering fridge if I packed with crushed Ice. I wouldn't need to add Ice for days. I've got a 130 qt ice chest that takes a corny keg on its side just fine.

Remember that lagering came about by packing barrels of beer brewed in the spring with ice in caves to carry it through the summer. A little bit of innovative thinking will figure out what will work best in your own situation.

[Dave Warner]

I know you are supposed to lager in cold conditions for months after fermentation, that's pretty much what lagering means, but once you make it past the ester danger zone and scrub the diacytl, I would think you could get a pretty good lager by storing on a cool (60-70 degree) house for the lagering period. I doubt it would win a competition, but it would taste pretty close to a rigorously controlled lager.

[ClayMahone]

when i lived in Montana, lagering was easily done in the garage. i would wrap a couple blankets around it to try and even out the temperature changes, and i had a temp sticker on the carboy to monitor temp. if you have a garage, and you planned ahead, you could probably finish a lager here in the Texas winter. especially this winter, seems colder than normal this year.

i used to look in the farmer's almanac to figure out when the best starting point would be temperature wise.

[chris mewhinney]

OK, I can see where placing the carboy in a large cooler packed with ice would work, maybe even in Texas. That would enable relatively good temperature control, at the cost of just the cooler and the ice. But personally, I'd probably get a little tired of checking the ice content, buying more ice, and repacking over the 4-6 week lagering period. And the current Texas temperatures certainly won't last THAT long! I say take the plunge! Get an extra fridge and temperature controller. Trust me, they will be used a LOT...and won't be impacted by the inevitable return to our wonderful summer temperatures (in about a week...).

With regard to bottling after primary and placing the bottles in a fridge, doesn't that assume you have enough fridge space for a carboy, as well? I know my wife got REAL tired of me storing 50 beer bottles in the kitchen fridge REAL fast! But I suppose the bottles could also go in a really big cooler...

With regard to storing "...in a cool house at 60-70 degrees...", that's not cool, not from a lagering perspective. At those temperatures, what little yeast is left after primary will ferment out quickly and will not continue to condition the beer. Lagering must be done no higher than 40ish...

[RobDrechsler]

I will actually be making an Octoberfest within the next 2 weeks and would be willing to share my fridge if you'd like.

Chris , thanks for the offer, but I will pass at this time. as I'm a total noob and constantly babying my ferments..

I'll wait till i'm better prepared and more learned..


the one thing is, I do have a cold enough garage, the issue would be to bring the temperature up and maintain it in the 50's.. maybe in late feb or march I can make a go of it..

[chris mewhinney]

I totally understand and empathize. If the situation were reversed, I'd have to have frequent visitation rights...

Good luck, though. And if you do try one of the methods mentioned by the more creative brewers above, I'm sure we'd all like to see how that beer turns out.

[Dave Warner]

With regard to storing "...in a cool house at 60-70 degrees...", that's not cool, not from a lagering perspective. At those temperatures, what little yeast is left after primary will ferment out quickly and will not continue to condition the beer. Lagering must be done no higher than 40ish...

True, but Rob is looking to brew a Vienna or Bock which tend toward malty sweet and not completely dried out. I'm thinking you can get a mock-bock or mocktoberfest without extended lagering if you can deal with sacrificing the few points of gravity at the end. I guess I was talking about bottle conditioning rather than a 3 month lager ferment. I realize it is not a true lager, but we're not in a climate to lager without the gear.

Personally, I waited to do a lager until I had the fridge and temp controller...and kegs. Who wants to wait for bottle conditioning when you've already waited months!

[chris mewhinney]

Agreed! Rob needs a dedicated fridge...

[ClayMahone]

i found my fridge in the free section of Craigslist.

[chris mewhinney]

Or...if Rob is married, he could surprise his wife by buying her a new refrigerator...and moving the old one to the garage! (I got a big, used chest freezer for $200 on Craig's List. Holds a LOT of kegs and carboys.)