Ok, let's talk about Wheat Bier

[donniestyle]

Well guys, you also make good beer. It's a "crap shoot" sometimes. We are all just dies on the table. I think I'll try one too. I'm not claiming any fame. I've only made a couple hefeweizens and I didn't think mine were really good. It is because, as you say, they are not easy to make. I'll give it a go, because I've been wanting to make one for a couple years. One thing that stopped me in the past is that I am a hop head. I just can't get myself motivated enough to make such a lowly hopped beer sometimes. Thank God for the 4VG clove phenol.

[chris mewhinney]

Hey guys. I thought you might find this article about Hefeweizen by George De Piro interesting.

http://www.evansale.com/hefeweizen_article.html

He's brewmaster at a brewpub in NY and has several professional beer awards under his belt. He basically contradicts most everything we've been discussing lately about creating the banana esters...which really drives me nuts! High level key points:

-Do create a large starter.
-Do fully oxygenate the wort.
-Do not do a protein rest.
-Do not bother with decoction.
-Do single step infusion using Munich and wheat malts.
-Ferment between 68 and 72 degrees.

I just finished brewing a hefe, a dunkelweizen, and a weizenbock. I did exactly the opposite of the first four recommendations above, though I fermented the hefe and dunkel at 68. Soooo...next up (after my Oktoberfest), a hefe with a large starter, good aeration, an infusion mash at 149, and 70 degree ferment. The comparison to my current hefe should be interesting.

[BrotherhoodBrew]

Hey guys. I thought you might find this article about Hefeweizen by George De Piro interesting.

http://www.evansale.com/hefeweizen_article.html

He's brewmaster at a brewpub in NY and has several professional beer awards under his belt. He basically contradicts most everything we've been discussing lately about creating the banana esters...which really drives me nuts! High level key points:

-Do create a large starter.
-Do fully oxygenate the wort.
-Do not do a protein rest.
-Do not bother with decoction.
-Do single step infusion using Munich and wheat malts.
-Ferment between 68 and 72 degrees.

I just finished brewing a hefe, a dunkelweizen, and a weizenbock. I did exactly the opposite of the first four recommendations above, though I fermented the hefe and dunkel at 68. Soooo...next up (after my Oktoberfest), a hefe with a large starter, good aeration, an infusion mash at 149, and 70 degree ferment. The comparison to my current hefe should be interesting.

Just remember that his system is different because of scale. His large fermenter geometry could cause the yeast to produce different esters under pressure and as homebrewers we have to ferment at a different temp to get the same esters. Things like that. Now I do agree with the large starter, oxygen the wort, don't worry about rests, and the decoction. Really in the end do what works for you.

[Bill Lawrence]

Well guys, I finally got both these beers brewed. I will be kegging my heffe this evening (using the official "Willy's krausening method") and while I'm at it, I will pull off three bottles for the Bluebonnet. I will also move my Dunkelwiezen into secondary and it will get the same treatment this coming weekend. I'll then let both kegs (and bottles) sit at room temperature for a couple of weeks after which I should be set to go (God willing). By the way on the dunkelweizen, I finally went with roughly 30% dark Munich malt, 70% dark malted wheat and about 4 ounces of melonodian malt plus a little carafa II for color. I did a double decoction and boiled down some of the first runnings which should make up for the lack of any crystal malt. I decided that what I was going for was really a wheat Munich dunkel and hopefully this should work, I guess the judges will tell me come the end of March. Good luck everyone, let the wheat wars begin.

[donniestyle]

Bottled 15 bottles of Roggenbier on Saturday and kegged the rest. OG=1.054, FG=1.012. Brewed it at Grover's brew day. Used 1 pound of rice hulls and still had 2 stuck mashes. Did rests at 113F, 145F, 158F, 168F.

[ssage21]

I’ve never liked wheat beer much and figured I’d make a honey wheat because of the store bought (Michelob sample pack) it was my favorite and my quest to make every style at least once. I thought it was pretty good and got a high score at the Dixie Cup.
I figured that the freshness and possible preservatives must be why I don’t like the commercial beers. Are there any really good commercial beers?

On my latest wheat brew I noticed that the flavor changed from clove to banana as I sipped on the keg over a month. I figure this may be the yeast falling out and getting poured since my keggerator is set at 35 degrees. It’s set this low to lager some other brews. What is the recommended serving temperature?

[donniestyle]

Well there is a lot of difference between American Wheat beers and German. I don't think there are any German versions with honey, unless they are made by American microbreweries. The American breweries seldom use German yeast. They call them Hefe, because of the yeast and haze. In some cases ingredients are purposely added to cause a haze, like adding a small amount of wheat to the boil for the starch haze.

Anyway, I really like the German wheat beers. They are meant to be consumed fresh. I like the clove flavor. It balances the malt nicely. I guess a lot of the "character" can settle out as the beer ages. You could rouse the sediment, and many of us do that. In a bottle, I leave the last half ounce of beer in the bottle, and swirl it around until all the sediment is roused then pour it into the glass. In the keg I just rouse the yeast all the time any more.

[Bill Lawrence]

German wheat beer is wierd stuff, some absolutely love it (like me for instance) but some folks just can't stand it. It is notorious for storing badly, it is much better when consumed fresh. I am not sure if that has anything to do with the yeast settling out or what but there is a noticable flavor drift. If I am going to enter some in a competition, I always plan it to be the last beer I brew just before entry submission. Since I think there should be chunks of yeast floating around in there, I also naturally condition the stuff, even in the keg. Like you, I have kept it too long and the yeast has settled out. If you naturally condition the beer, all you need do is rouse the keg a bit and you are back in business.

As Donnie points out (although how can you take somebody with a hat like his seriously), American wheats are made with different yeasts which don't produce the typical bananna/clove/bubble gum flavors. You will see many formulations which use plain old WLP001 and there is also a special yeast for American wheat beers (I forget the number off the top of my head). I plan to try an American wheat for the limbo this summer and I rather fancy Pyramid wheat so I did a little research. As it turns out, they are making that stuff with a lager yeast so I guess you can pretty much do what you will. I suppose they count on the high protein levels in the wheat to keep it hazy.

As far as commerical examples, like I mentioned I rather like Pyramid. Most of the craft breweries have an American wheat in their line up and like anything else, it is a matter of personal preference. To my taste, most American wheat beers have a fairly subtle taste when compared to their German cousins. Additionally, some are hopped much heavier than Pyramid's offering so I guess it is all in what "floats your boat". It is a pretty good style to serve the Miller/Bud/Coors folks as a first step to the "dark side" which is craft beer.