CAP

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donniestyle
Posts: 356
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:58 pm
Location: Little Elm, TX 75068

Re: CAP

Post by donniestyle »

Okay, I have my first CAP fermenting for a week now. How difficult could it be? After seeing you brew it Bill, I thought about it and read all I could find. I decided to brew one with Yellow Corn Grits, just like the mega brewers do. That cereal mash is more difficult than I thought. Those grits really gum up. I started with a 2 to 1 corn to grain ratio, I had added twice as much water as I needed, and still had to add water twice more during the 75 minute boil. That stuff was spitting at me the entire time. I got burned countless times, and my shirt was covered with goo. Here's the recipe.

1 lb. Rice Hulls
13 lb. 6-row (twice milled)
4.5 lb yellow corn grits
0.5 lb Acidulated malt
3.0 oz 2.30% Hallertauer Mittelfreuh 90 min
1.0 oz 5.18% Sterling 90 min
1.0 oz 3.92% Vanguard 90 min
0.5 oz 5.44% Hallertau Tradition 60 min
0.5 oz 3.77% Liberty 30 min
0.5 oz 3.68 Mt Hood at knockout

Beer Smith says the OG is 1.049, the IBUs are 33.0, and the SRM is 3.1. I didn't take a gravity of the wort, and trust I hit the mark. Don't count the rice hulls and the corn is 25% of the grist. The cereal mash was about 2 lb 6-row and 4.5 lb grits. The remainder of the grain was the main mash. Mash steps were 108F, 128F, 148F, 162F. The cereal mash infusion was used to raise the mash to 128F. A decoction raised the mash to 148F. A 2.5 gal 211F liquor infusion raised the mash to 162F. The glucan rest was 30 min, and the protein rest was 20 minutes. The beta rest was 1 hour, and the alpha rest was 20 minutes. There was no room for mash out. Recirculated until very clear, then collected almost 3 gallons before the stuck mash. Stirred up the top 2/3 of the mash and added back the collected wort, then recirculated again and it cleared up fine and I was collecting and sparging. I plan to do another this weekend using flaked maize and a double decoction to see if how similar the two beers are. We'll have to compare.
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Bill Lawrence
Posts: 374
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:18 am

Re: CAP

Post by Bill Lawrence »

Those corn grits are a big pain aren't they? I swear, they put the pyramids together with that stuff it is so sticky. Nothing feels better than to have a little boiling hot corn sear your flesh while stiring, I just love it. I think the trick is to just make sure to add enough water, and then add some more just to be sure. It will be interesting to find out if the grits are worth the trouble or if flaked corn gets the job done. My experience says the grits are better but it was not a blind tasting so who knows what the correct answer is. I do think however that a ceral mash is much like a decoction and it will tend to make the beer just a little smoother.

I think what we need to do once all this beer is ready for tasting is get together and compare and contrast. I am only doing 20% adjunct in mine but I chose the preprohibition style so my O.G. is higher, I started at 1.055. The other difference is the hopping, I basicly did a Bitburger hopping on mine and I think I am going to be happy with it. I tasted a little when transferring the beer to secondary and I am optimistic but you never know, I am sure I can figure out a way to screw it up yet.

Sunday, I did my Munich Dunkel and in a couple more weeks I think maybe a Bock (or possibly a Double Bock) will be the order of the day. I am planning probably four beers between now and the Bluebonnet and of those, three will be decoctions. I guess I must be a glutton for punishment but I have done so many now that it is really not that big a deal any more. The last two beers will be wheat beers and for sure I am going to decoct both. I know Richard will be boiling the hell out of his and I don't want to just roll over and let him kick my butt in that category. :D
Remember, brewers make wort, only yeast make beer
chris mewhinney
Posts: 185
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:15 pm

Re: CAP

Post by chris mewhinney »

I really need to get a handle on my hefe's, guys. My goal is always Maximum Banana (which would be a good name for a rock band...). I've tweaked my normal recipa and temps and the results have no banana at all. Good wheat beer, just no banana. I have always used Wyeast Weinstephan, last time no yeast starter and less aeration than normal. Mashed at 154 and fermented at 68-70. And yes, I decocted. Still no banana. I'm really starting to wonder if, after 2000 years, they've changed the freaking yeast on me!

Any ideas?

By the way, I have 5 gallons of a great, clovey wheat beer if anyone wants some...

Chris
Chris Mewhinney
There's a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness".
donniestyle
Posts: 356
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:58 pm
Location: Little Elm, TX 75068

Re: CAP

Post by donniestyle »

I'm not sure what malt constituents would contribute to the banana, except maybe acids. Isoamyl acetate is an ester, thus it is the combination of an organic alcohol and acid. They are mostly produced in the first stages of fermentation. This is also where the higher order alcohols are formed (fusels: produced by the metabolism of amino acids). The main contributors to these are low yeast pitching rates, high fermentation temperatures at early yeast stages, low oxygen levels, and trub.

You can leave the cold break in the fermentation, and not worry about any haze formed with it as this is a Hefeweizen. You can pitch a single yeast pack with no starter. You can start the fermentation at 70, but you will need to monitor it carefully and get it lowered after two days. Be very careful not to allow it to go higher than 70, or you will get fusels. You can also not aerate the wort, but what worries me more about doing that is not getting enough yeast growth and ending up with a under-attenuated beer.

Another note on higher fermentation temperature. If you do ferment above 70, I think you will notice it. The beer should be more highly fermented, and have stronger alcohol flavors and aromas. I don't know for a fact, but I think the Konig Ludwig Hefe is like this. It gives me a headache, and I associate that with fusels. It does have more banana though. Don't take my word for gospel; I could be wrong.

My understanding is, in the motherland they start Hefeweizen fermentation at 55F and raise it up. They are not all about the banana esters. That's my preference also, so I do use a starter and aerate well. I also never allow the fermentation temperature to go above 65 in the first few days. I like the clove more than the banana, but I am also a fan of the vanilla ester. It's been stated that more ferulic acid will produce more clove (4VG) and more cinnamic (p-coumeric) acid will produce more vanilla esters. More of these are liberated from the grain in a rest between 110-113F.
Is your beer intimate, hand crafted, and artisanally made?
donniestyle
Posts: 356
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:58 pm
Location: Little Elm, TX 75068

Re: CAP

Post by donniestyle »

Oh yea, I'm brewing Sunday. I'd really like to try your clovey wheat beer.

Confession: My first batch of pumpkin cream ale had 25 whole cloves (reduced to dust) in a 10 gallon batch. I later made two batches with only a couple cloves, and did not pulverize them.
Is your beer intimate, hand crafted, and artisanally made?
chris mewhinney
Posts: 185
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:15 pm

Re: CAP

Post by chris mewhinney »

Thanks for your thoughts on the hefe. I'd really like to brew with you on Sunday (not that that was an invitation...but that never stopped me from showing up in the past...), but I can't do it this week.

I'll bring some to the brew day, along with several other styles for everyone to sample. I'll have the hefe, a robust porter, chocolate porter (maybe), pumpkin, and an old lousy weizenbock.

Chris
Chris Mewhinney
There's a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness".
donniestyle
Posts: 356
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:58 pm
Location: Little Elm, TX 75068

Re: CAP

Post by donniestyle »

I was going to brew at the brew day, but I have another engagement. I'll brew at my place instead on Sunday. You're welcome to come over.
Is your beer intimate, hand crafted, and artisanally made?
donniestyle
Posts: 356
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:58 pm
Location: Little Elm, TX 75068

Re: CAP

Post by donniestyle »

Okay, the second CAP is fermenting this morning. The recipe is the same except flaked maize is used in place of the corn grits. I mashed in at 8:30 did a double decoction, had 2 stuck mashes, and was completely finished by 5:00. I've never had a big problem with stuck mashes before. I'm not a fan of the 6-row if that is what occurs. Maybe it's the high use of adjunct. I did use a whole pound of rice hulls in both batches. The amount of tieg in the mash was incredible. If I ever get a stuck mash again, I'll scrape that stuff off the top of the mash and throw it out (I did the second time yesterday). Anyway, the yield was as good or better than the last. I collected 12.4 gallons at 1.044, and boiled it down to 10.5 gallons at 1.049.
Is your beer intimate, hand crafted, and artisanally made?
donniestyle
Posts: 356
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:58 pm
Location: Little Elm, TX 75068

Re: CAP

Post by donniestyle »

I transferred the grits CAP to bright tank yesterday, and tested the flaked CAP also. The grits CAP was at 1.012 and clear at 40F. I transferred it to a serving keg and am keeping it at 40F for a couple more weeks. It tasted great. Maybe it will drop another point. The flaked CAP was at 1.012 at 50F. It doesn't have any noticable diacetyl, and I really don't have a frig to do a diacetyl rest, so I might just bypass the d-rest. One good thing is it is in the fermentation frig, and the Vienna wort pitched onto the grits CAP yeast cake was at about 45F when put in. The temperature probe is connected to the Vienna fermenter, which was cooler than the refrigerator. This morning, the flaked CAP was at 55F. It's getting a short pseudo d-rest while the Vienna fermentation kicks off. Hope it is enough. The grits CAP was brewed on 10/30, and the flaked CAP on 11/15. They are really moving along fast. It must be the amount of yeast pitched, as the primary fermentation temperature was 49-50.
Is your beer intimate, hand crafted, and artisanally made?
donniestyle
Posts: 356
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:58 pm
Location: Little Elm, TX 75068

Re: CAP

Post by donniestyle »

Found a way to do the diacetyl rest and primary fermentation in the same refrigerator. The 40W light bulb goes at the bottom of the fridg, very close to two the side wall and 2 d-rest kegs kegs blocking the heat from the other two kegs on the other side of the fridg with the blow off bottle between. The temp is set to 50F in the fridg, and the sensor is taped to one of the primary kegs. The primary kegs stay at 50F, and the d-rest kegs are both at 60F. Started cooling them back down last night.

Did bottle 2 liters of the first CAP and have a carbonator cap on it and keeping it pressurized. It's young but good. Taste it at the Christmas party.
Is your beer intimate, hand crafted, and artisanally made?
donniestyle
Posts: 356
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:58 pm
Location: Little Elm, TX 75068

Re: CAP

Post by donniestyle »

Grits pils update.

The beer is drying nicely. The hop character is now the first thing noticed. The aroma and flavor are both floral and spicy. The bitterness balances over the malt. The malt is light, and the corn is almost unrecognizable. I think this beer is finishing nicely, and in the true pilsner style. This is confirming my belief that the lager malts we use need a protein rest. I am thinking to do a double decoction on my next German Pils to get this kind of character. I've been single infusion mashing them for years, and I've been thinking they needed the protein rest and decoction to build the character. Note the main mash was a lengthy rest at 148 with a 162 rest to convert any residual starches. I think this made a big difference also. I'll transfer the second batch (flaked maize) this weekend to the lagering vessel. We'll be able to try them together at hog heaven.
Is your beer intimate, hand crafted, and artisanally made?
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